Jump to content
Hoobz904

Dave's Ktm250 Sx To 300 Sx-W Build Thread.

Recommended Posts

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems in theory !!!!

Bad Luck Hoobz but you will have it sorted pretty quick Im betting :)

Whats a few more dollars anyway at this point ... LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work Dave.....you'll be ripping up anglesea before you know it.

What model is the 6 speed output shaft out of? It's interesting that they have made the two so different. Be nice to know why ktm made them so different?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bugger, bad news there fella

It was going wayyy too smoothly. The funny thing is I knew that the ends of the shafts were different as I was going for it, but just stupidly assumed it would be ok. Obviously in hind sight I should have pulled on the brakes as soon as I saw the difference.

Daaaam! Good work tho mr hoobz! Is that the only problems so far?

Yes, the only slight hint of drama this is...and it's a doozy. lollerzzz.

Nothing is ever as simple as it seems in theory !!!!

Bad Luck Hoobz but you will have it sorted pretty quick Im betting :)

Whats a few more dollars anyway at this point ... LOL

I totally trusted the men who put the kit together, I guess I just became a guinea pig for this 2013 conversion. I'm trusting they'll help me with completing the project as a 6 speeder. Even though the 6 speed was an after thought.

Yep, what's another grand?

D'oh!

Great work Dave.....you'll be ripping up anglesea before you know it.

What model is the 6 speed output shaft out of? It's interesting that they have made the two so different. Be nice to know why ktm made them so different?

It's a long story, the main shaft is a 2012 XC-W, not the 13. But the 13 XC-W shaft wouldn't work either, because this 13 SX is the only bike with the all new diaphragm pressure clutch system, it has no springs. The hubs on both the 13 SX and XC-W are totally different.

The 12 SX and XC's share the same clutch assembly. I made a spread sheet with all the models shafts, clutch, kick starter gears, engine and clutch cases etc etc and as far as my humble little brain can ascertain the 2012 SX/XC total clutch assembly should get me out there with 6 gears.

Fingers crossed it will work. I've sent an email with tonnes of pics to the supplier.

In the mean time I've rolled the dice and going to keep going with everything else. I can put the new clutch assembly in and finish the rest off while it's in the bike.

It's just that I could have to take the engine out and apart again if it ends up a no goer. I'm willing to take the chance on that in an effort to get out there riding it quicker. Plus its actually very simple to take out and split in two anyway, you can do it in two hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

rode the 250sx today at ktm ride day and it's got a heap more balls then my 300exc. you'll love it hoobz once you ride it,very light to maneovure and in the air. couldn't get on it today as it was to much in the heavy conditions and lighted up to easily.

hope you sort it out soon so you can enjoy.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Hondahead. It's little comments like it being worth it in the end that give me a boost at the moment.

Cluffie,

I have so many great reviews on this bike that part of me is thinking I could have easily just left it as is, just got rec rego and blasted away.

It's nice to know that ultimately if all goes hay wire I can always return it to stock and have tonnes of fun anyway.

If it does all come together I have a bunch of spare parts, that I can either keep for later or sell off.

I'm really loving the minimal electrics. There's nothing on it. I just changed the CDI over to the 300SX part.

P1500464.jpg

Very quick to swap over.

P1500465.jpg

Just one wire following the clutch line. It's for the one button kill switch. No mess of brackets full with wiring and connectors, no speedo crap, no infamous damp susceptible Kato switch blocks on either side. Just pure and simple.

P1500467.jpg

There is no head light out there to suit this front guard yet. The SX is the only bike with this guard. I wanted it to look KTM factory. So you have to grab and EXC/XC light assembly and do some cutting and fabricating to make it fit. I trimmed off about 30mm from the bottom and shaped it around the guard. Unlike the old guards, there are two bolts screwed in horizontally into the lower clamp from the front and just 2 bolts vertically up into the clamp from under the guard.

P1500468.jpg

I ended up fabricating a small section of ally angle into a lower mount bracket. You can just see it under the light.

P1500472.jpg

I fitted the Ego Barkbusters too. I went for black because I tend to lie it down a bit, and in no time white and orange ones look really rough.

P1500474.jpg

Now I am about to fit off the 300 barrel with all the power valve parts. The 300 is the bare one on the right, the 250 barrel on the left.

P1500476.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this build really is fully sick to the power of rad!!!! keep up the updates mate and good luck with the clutch issue, hopefully it all works out for ya

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read all this thread, it's great, well done, cannot wait to see it finished. So are you going with the new style clutch? (Never mind just read that bit again)!

Good idea to resist the temptation of riding it too as you can now part out bits as brand new as opposed to used

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mate I'm very sure that the 2013 250/300 xc, xcw's have the new diapham clutch, I think what you need is a 2013 shaft. I might be wrong but I don't think so. You could run the old clutch on that shaft but it would be nice to have the new one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this build really is fully sick to the power of rad!!!! keep up the updates mate and good luck with the clutch issue, hopefully it all works out for ya

Thanks man. A few times I've felt a bit depressed about the clutch issue over the weekend, but as soon as I walk into the shed and see the shiny new SX sitting there I perk up 100 fold :)

Nice work on the head light hoobz looks completely stock...loving your work!

I'm stoked with how it came up. Better than I thought. Thanks Ads.

Just read all this thread, it's great, well done, cannot wait to see it finished. So are you going with the new style clutch? (Never mind just read that bit again)!

Good idea to resist the temptation of riding it too as you can now part out bits as brand new as opposed to used

Thanks Paul. The project itself, turning the spanners and stuff is easy, it's just this clutch hiccup that has thrown a spanner in the works.

Some more progress this arvo.

If there is one thing that pisses me off a bit about KTM it's their bloody dumb gudgeon clips. Why can't they use a simple circlip? That's what circlip pliers are for. There is a KTM gudgeon clip tool you can get, but I refuse to buy one on principle. haha. Well, maybe next time I will.

I couldn't get the fuggers on with screwdrivers, pliers or through much swearing so I made my own gudgeon clip tool.

For the chippies or plasterers out there, I started with a small piece of Ezy-Jamb metal :)

P1500481.jpg

Then roll formed it into a slight 2mm offset cone.

P1500483.jpg

A 12mm Sidchrome socket is perfect for the piston end. 14mm socket for the far end.

P1500485.jpg

The finished tack welded cone, with chamfered edge tube. Plus the gudgeon clip plunger piston I turned up on the lathe out of a coach bolt. hahaha

P1500494.jpg

Sit the piston in place.

P1500495.jpg

Feed/push the clip in from the 14mm end to the 12mm end with the plunger. I pushed too far once and the clip went off into space, luckily I found it on the top shelf behind me.

P1500499.jpg

Push the 12mm end of the tube hard into the gudgeon tunnel. Give the plunger piston a calculated whack with a hammer, and hey presto, I now don't have to buy one of those gudgeon clip tools.

P1500501.jpg

The barrel torqued down, with the arrow on the piston facing the right direction.

P1500505.jpg

And there you have it. The SX is now officially a 300SX. It was ridiculously easy. I'd go as far as saying it was fun. Just like Mechano and stuff. So nice to be working on a brand new engine too. So clean.

P1500508.jpg

I can't help but think, if it wasn't for the damn clutch issue, and the hours I've spent on the net going over part numbers and researching the issue...I would have had it all put back together and running now. I would've had a video up demonstrating the sweet sounds and all. Bugger. Ahh well, it will have to wait.

I have had another thought. I might try and hire a hi-end machinist to make me a hybrid main shaft. Using the two shafts surely someone can produce the part. Surely?

If anyone reading this knows of someone who is brilliant at making tranny shafts and could do it, please pass on the info. I'm ready to go. I'd be stoked if I could still use the SX diaphragm clutch.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mate I'm very sure that the 2013 250/300 xc, xcw's have the new diapham clutch, I think what you need is a 2013 shaft. I might be wrong but I don't think so. You could run the old clutch on that shaft but it would be nice to have the new one.

Hey there Bronte.

I've gone over the parts fiches for all the 2013's. Including the XC's and XC-W's. None of them have the same clutch as the SX :(

Unless the parts fiches are wrong at this stage.

I'm so hoping you are right though. That would be excellent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woe woe woe.

Wait a minute!!!

I know Bronte knows his KTM shit, more than me probably.

So I went back into the parts fiches one more time.

HE IS RIGHT.

I might just need the new shaft after all :lol:

Fark me.

Thank you Bronte. You made me check one more time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mate why the hell do you have to live so far from me i would pay you to build motors for me...serously dude your crazy im impressed with what youve done in short time.keep it up mate thats awesome!

My family friend is an engerner/tool maker he used to make alot of stuff for his old bikes when he was racung ill give him a call tomorrow arvo and find out if he can/ will.be interestes in looking at that spline.for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mate why the hell do you have to live so far from me i would pay you to build motors for me...serously dude your crazy im impressed with what youve done in short time.keep it up mate thats awesome!

My family friend is an engerner/tool maker he used to make alot of stuff for his old bikes when he was racung ill give him a call tomorrow arvo and find out if he can/ will.be interestes in looking at that spline.for you.

Seriously Ads, they are insanely easy to work on. Even a hack like me can do it.

I don't think I need a shaft made any more. Thanks anyway.

I am looking at a different parts fiche now and the clutch off the 6 speed XC's are identical to the SX's.

Like Bronte said. It's highly likely I just need the 2013 XC-W main shaft. My sleep will be heaps better tonight. I only got 4 hours in last night, lying awake worrying about this shit. My bad. lol.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just checked 2 diff. parts lists for 2013 250XC and they both have the new clutch. The shaft you need is part no. 54833301100

Yeah I know, I'm onto it.

Thanks Bronte. I owe you a beer.

The fella in the US is probably sending me the same info in an email soon, but it's nice to know now.

You BEAUTY!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about north geelong engine reconditioners? Apparently they have some of the best equiptment in town?

I'm a bit behind in my posting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about north geelong engine reconditioners? Apparently they have some of the best equiptment in town?

I'm a bit behind in my posting!

Hahahha. Yep. We've worked out we need not a custom shaft.

The Aussie 2013 300 EXC's have the mainshaft I need to by the looks of it.

54833201100 MAIN SHAFT CPL. 14T 244.73

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. I went and just did it. I should be picking up the above main shaft from Mototech tomorrow. Fingers crossed it's the fix I need.

While lying in bed this morning I also ordered a Tubliss kit for both wheels. Made me feel a bit better :)

By all reviews and accounts fitting the Tubliss system should over come some concerns about running a 19" rear. They're also a lot lighter so that's good for the unsprung weight and then handling. The system should help me run lower pressure in the rear and still give rim protection. Wait and see I suppose.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

very interesting reading thus far and good luck with the new shaft..

out of curiosity, I understand the basics of the tubliss set ups but i'm wondering how they would protect the rim?

is it a case of the "inner bicycle tube" being inflated at such a high psi and pressing hard against the bead/rim that is providing the protection??

keep up the good work!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously Ads, they are insanely easy to work on. Even a hack like me can do it.

I don't think I need a shaft made any more. Thanks anyway.

I am looking at a different parts fiche now and the clutch off the 6 speed XC's are identical to the SX's.

Like Bronte said. It's highly likely I just need the 2013 XC-W main shaft. My sleep will be heaps better tonight. I only got 4 hours in last night, lying awake worrying about this shit. My bad. lol.

No problem mate well you know youve got that contact if need be for something in future.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is the best thread on dirtriderZ, every time i read new posts i learn something :) :)

After this thread is done you might want to have a crack at it yourself Joxy :)

very interesting reading thus far and good luck with the new shaft..

out of curiosity, I understand the basics of the tubliss set ups but i'm wondering how they would protect the rim?

is it a case of the "inner bicycle tube" being inflated at such a high psi and pressing hard against the bead/rim that is providing the protection??

keep up the good work!

Thanks Dustin.

Well, we'll see how true it is, but according to the reviews and tests on the TUBliss Nuetech system (http://tubliss.com/)...

"Rim Protection

TUbliss protects the rim from dings and dents by holding the tire firmly and making the sidewalls stay upright and absorb the full impact, unlike bending and deflection of conventional tubes."

All I know is that I have a few flat spots on my 530 dirt wheels, and if I don't get any on this bike, it's probably because of the TUBliss.

I've booked in the bike for rego inspection this Friday. So the pressure is on to have it ready to ride and legal by then. Maybe run it in, test it out, and do some shake downs on Saturday. Hopefully.

I've decided if any more 6 speed tranny conversion issues are going to stop me from meeting the Friday deadline that I'll revert it back to 5 speed for a few weeks until I sort it out. I just gotta get out and riding again, it's been a while, and I can't wait any longer. Riding buddies and trails are waiting.

It'd be an awesome bike either way, 6 or 5 speed, I'm still gunna have fun on it.

Tonight I split the cases again.

This time around I realised I never needed to take a few things off that I did last time. It's a rookie mistake that comes from following the workshop manual too closely.

For example, you don't need to take off the kickstart gears and primary nut and sprocket, so I left them on it this time. They are a bit fiddly to remove and put back on. Ahh well, I'll know not to do it from now on.

I might as well just use velcro to hold it all together.

P1500522.jpg

Just a couple of shots to show the inside of the cases if anyone is curious about what it looks like in there.

P1500526.jpg

P1500527.jpg

The hardest part about assembling the internals for me has been working out which shift fork goes in which place and in which direction. The manual is very vague about it, and the demonstration pics are crap. But if you like solving 3D puzzles it's easy enough.

Untitled.jpg

The offending main shaft has been disassembled, now just to wait for the new one.

P1500533.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...