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Gypsy501

Lvl 3 rides

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16 minutes ago, 2t4me said:

the 2 descriptions will be discussed and changes will be made (including either removing or merging threads if required etc...) but the end result will be we will make sure that there is not 2 different descriptions on the forum

gee, where's the fun in that, I was rather enjoying this thread and looking forward to many more...…………..just kidding

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Didn't most of this ambiguity or over or under rating a ride begin when certain people on here had a giant sook about "stop posting up 2.5 rides and pick either lvl2 or lvl3"

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8 hours ago, Pygmygod said:

Didn't most of this ambiguity or over or under rating a ride begin when certain people on here had a giant sook about "stop posting up 2.5 rides and pick either lvl2 or lvl3"

Are you asking a serious question?  or just having a pot shot at mods/admins, who were clearly the ones not happy with the change at the time ?

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On 6/24/2018 at 7:16 PM, hoff300 said:

The old 2.5 rides seem to have moved up with time too level 3 rides and beyond. I considered that I was a 2.5 to a 3 on a good day, now 2.5 seems to have a big gap to 3. 

I have posted this wrong! It should have read the gap between level 2, and 3 seams to be non existent now, don't forget the pluses. It's all in the ride grading description. Read the rider grading post and get out there have fun!!!  

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18 minutes ago, Geoffro said:

Are you asking a serious question?  or just having a pot shot at mods/admins, who were clearly the ones not happy with the change at the time ?

Thanks Geoffro, clearly unnecessary. 

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9 hours ago, Pygmygod said:

Didn't most of this ambiguity or over or under rating a ride begin when certain people on here had a giant sook about "stop posting up 2.5 rides and pick either lvl2 or lvl3"

To me pluses replaced the .5, so not much difference and there was a little problem with OMG. So move on nothing to see here enjoy, pick a ride and have fun!!! 

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8 hours ago, Pygmygod said:

Didn't most of this ambiguity or over or under rating a ride begin when certain people on here had a giant sook about "stop posting up 2.5 rides and pick either lvl2 or lvl3"

There was a period where .5 started getting added to a lot of rides, then .5 +omg etc etc. The admin/mod group of the time felt ride gradings were getting very obscure and confusing for new members or those that weren't regulars on the rides of that time. As such yes, there was a request to stop using .5 rides and yes debate did follow. It was from there that the use of a + sign was implemented, its intended use being for a ride that was predominantly one level with a small proportion of the level above it (i.e. a ride that is 80% L2 with a L3 hill or obstacle thrown in, thus making it a 2+)

If we/you want to split hairs then arguably there is no difference between using a .5 or a + symbol - but the decision was made to use a +.

Despite what people may think, the admins and mods on this site try and act in the best interests of forum members as a whole. We make decisions sometimes that are unpopular and some people will disagree with but again, we TRY and act in a way that keeps the forum relevant and beneficial for all with an interest in dirt bikes.

Gypsy has started a thread here with something he was/is genuinely concerned about and I can assure you all that we have had various conversations behind the scene in an attempt to address the situation. In the next couple of days we will complete the review that we are doing and will clean up a couple of conflicting threads that have come to light as a result of this thread.

In particular the conflicting content found in 2 grading threads will be replaced. There is no doubt that there will be some members who will disagree with what we will present but again, we will act in a way that we believe best serves the members as a whole.

I would ask that everyone remembers that those of us that are fulfilling admin/mod roles do so voluntarily, we all have full time jobs, families and busy lives. We may not always act as quickly as some would like and at times may come across as a little blunt or dismissive but we are all human and at times get a little tired or fed up with some of the crap directed our way for merely trying to provide a beneficial forum for all to use.

Thanks

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I thought this topic was quite relevant to start. Hopefully it doesn't turn to sh!t now.

Gypsy has a valid point, don't turn up to level 3 if you not a level 3 rider, if your not sure, maybe PM the lead rider.

As for the level 2.5 or 2 plus ..... WTF .... wasn't that resolved and we've all moved on?

Would be a shame if we can't move on from it!

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I only just noticed that there's a more detailed reply to the rider grading thread, this is good news as the previous explanations weren't as detailed and I think this is why a thread like this current one started...I didn't even notice that it's been updated!

 

May need to delete the first couple of posts in that thread which refer to a 2010 thread and only show the latest descriptions of the rider grading?

That may help clear it up to prevent some people over-quoting their abilities or underselling/overselling their posted ride grade as per Gypsy's opening post.

 

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Thanks Pygmygod, as mentioned in my post 4 or so posts earlier, we are doing a review currently and will be putting up a new revised grading explanation as well as cleaning up and/or deleting/merging existing threads as required

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I see three themes here:

  1. Ratings and interpretation of the ratings
  2. Riders self rating of themselves
  3. Lead Riders rating the rides they post up

The following thoughts relate to 3 only. (I'll think about 1 and 2 a bit more)

As a lead rider my goal is to ensure everyone has a good ride. A good ride for me is that everyone that joins the ride is capable to handle the hardest parts of the ride regardless of the fatigued state they are in; nobody injures themselves from not having the required skill and experience; and I can change the loop as I get lost or see something shiny up to the level of the ride. 

TERRAIN: Therefore a risk of rating a ride with Level 3 terrain (even if its only a portion) as Level 2 or 2+ is that it has the connotation that a Level 2 rider can complete the ride. This puts this rider at risk as the harder parts are out of the current skill and experience of this rider. 

PACE: The rating should be based on terrain with pace mentioned in the notes if it is anything outside the rating of the ride. So if its faster or slower, or lots of breaks or no breaks - compared to the rating then this needs to be mentioned. This will help riders understand if they are burning all their energy keeping up then they may have fatigued themselves out for the harder terrain. 

I agree that a bit more detail regarding the terrain of the ride will help riders assess if this is the ride for them. 

 

Other thoughts

- All rides should be graded to the higher number and bought down (So a 2+ could be a 3-)?

- I am happy to calibrate the ratings for rides I post to whatever helps. 

 

 

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Thanks For your input Fab.

As stated a few times, we are currently conducting a reviewing on all this Grading related.

This will is encompassing the ride gradings that are currently posted on the forum, and the fact that we have managed to have 2 separate descriptions in existence, the expectations of riders attending a ride and the expectations of ride leaders posting rides.

In relation to a couple of your points above and in your current wombat ride thread comment. The + symbol (there will not be a - symbol introduced) is not an indication of a level of terrain lying somewhere between levels (for the purpose of this explanation we will use 2 and 3), there is no Level 2+ terrain. There is level 2 terrain and there is level 3 terrain, the +, in the case of a L2+ ride is an indication that the ride is PREDOMINANTLY L2 with some sections of L3. 

With this being the case, a posted ride with L2+ and a good detailed description should enable a L2 rider to self assess whether they think they can make it or not.

IF you rate a 2 or 2+ as a 3 due to a small portion of the ride 2 things WILL occur. 1) L3 riders will rock up expecting an L3 ride and wont get it. & 2) Riders will complete what they beleive was a L3 ride and rock up the next week on an actual genuine L3 ride and potentially be well out of their depth, the possible results of which can obviously be quite serious.

 

The goal we are/will be trying to achieve is that the Level of a posted ride relates to the TERRAIN, the details surrounding pace, frequency of breaks, level of assistance, km's to be covered etc etc need to be outlined in the description of the ride.

 

 

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The Organise Ride post has been amended.

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Having been a moderator on another web site  ( rc helicopters) for many years I feel sorry for the mods.....

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I have been riding with Dirtriderz for about 4 years, so I have experienced all sorts of delemas on rides from poorly prepared bikes to poorly prepared riders. Lets not try to re-invent the wheel, the present grading system or any future grading system is a guide only, it rains, trees block tracks, people have off days, what I am trying to say is conditions vary widely and NO ONE is perfect. Last weekend I signed up for a level 3 ride, I normally like my level 2+ rides but felt that my fitness had improved, I soon found myself very fatigued so decided to bail. Please correct me if I am wrong but I dont feel that this was any real problem, I made my own call to bail, I was pointed to the cars, no harm done. 

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33 minutes ago, dazzrmx said:

Last weekend I signed up for a level 3 ride, I normally like my level 2+ rides but felt that my fitness had improved, I soon found myself very fatigued so decided to bail. Please correct me if I am wrong but I dont feel that this was any real problem, I made my own call to bail, I was pointed to the cars, no harm done. 

Hi Dazz, you're right, it didnt cause any issue on the weekend, but a couple things need to be taken into account there:

1 - you knew when to pull the pin. Not everybody will/would/does do that. for some their pride will see them continue when they shouldnt and that has potential for injuries etc

2 - you made the call at a point in the ride where it was easy to point you back to the cars. On a lot of rides, particularly higher level rides, this is not always easy to do.

3 - when you posted up, i suspected you may not finish the ride but I was fine with that because I know you, I know you're capable of the terrain we were covering, I know that you wouldnt put your pride in front of your own safety!

4 - I also know that from *most* places at Dissa that I can get a rider to a point where they can be directed back to the cars without delaying the group too much - in the case of Saturdays ride, having 99percent with me meant that I knew that IF i had to guide someone back I would be able to have him take over and meet back up at a pre-arranged point...

these are the kinds of things that we want both people attanding a ride and people posting rides taking into account. I've often seen ride leaders add comments indicating that appropriate ride fitness and skill are required as it will be very difficult to direct people back to the cars etc....

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My 2C after reading posts.

(A) I ride dirt bikes because, after a fully hectic week at work, I like to tune out and focus on anything other than work.

(B) I also ride dirt bikes, because they bring a big smile 2 my dial as I hold the frottle wide open without hitting trees and not having to worry about speed cameras or cops.

(C) I also ride dirt bikes, because I enjoy the laughs, banter and general sheeet talk that goes on during the rides as people struggle, crash break down etc

(D) I also ride dirt bike, because I enjoy the challenges of the terrain and speed/pace of the ride.

Perhaps because I know most of the guys on DR leading the rides or attending, I can judge what sort of ride to expect.

But in the main I just enjoy dirt bikes full stop.

Having said that, Im not going to sign up for a lvl 1 or 2 step up ride but if it’s a social level 2, depending on people attending, lead rider and area, I will attend coz I enjoy riding and enjoy the company.

If I want to go hard, go flat out with minimal breaks, I’ll attend a level 4 and usually I’ll base that decision on person leading, area and people attending.

For people new to DR then it may be hard for them to make that judgement as they don’t know levels members, area’s and what to expect.

IMO i think some are taking the grading of rides too serious, when i 1st joined DR’s I had to get a feel for levels, riders ability, terrain in area’s speed, expectation of others etc.

Also most of the people posting on this thread have seen each other’s ability/experience, so no surprises there.

IMO whatever ride your going to lead, say what your looking for or going to be doing on that ride, with key words

ie expect on this ride

big logs

creeks and rivers

big hills up and down

the ride will be at a fast pace

there will be minimum breaks

if your not sure ask or don’t attend

if the person is new and no one can vouch for them, yes try a lower level ride 1st up, we have all been there!!

As Forest Gump says, that’s all I have to say about that.

Enjoy

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Agree with all.of your points Jas!

Sadly, we are never going to please everyone but at the same time we to need to try and cater for everyone!

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simple run a grading day were you turn up at a location which has all 4 levels go out and try certain tracks and if you are able to ride the level well that is  the level you are.  

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Check how your riding after 4hrs on pace. That will help you work out what level your at. Riding a level 4 trk when your fresh is not the same as  riding trks like that all day.

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Just had a thought... what if

At the annual DirtriderZ weekend we get graded...:dottore-01:

Riders from all over Melbourne can be graded to hold licence on a ride level

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35 minutes ago, TRAILZ said:

Just had a thought... what if

At the annual DirtriderZ weekend we get graded...:dottore-01:

Riders from all over Melbourne can be graded to hold licence on a ride level

Whilst there is no issue with riders seeking the opinions of others re their abilities we wont be implementing any official "rider gradings" or "rider grading days"..

the logistics of doing so would be an absolute nightmare - and I suspect the ensuing fall out and debate would absolutely dwarf the seemingly endless ride level discussions

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2 hours ago, 2t4me said:

Whilst there is no issue with riders seeking the opinions of others re their abilities we wont be implementing any official "rider gradings" or "rider grading days"..

the logistics of doing so would be an absolute nightmare - and I suspect the ensuing fall out and debate would absolutely dwarf the seemingly endless ride level discussions

Yes of course, and here I am thinking I had an Old El Paso IDEAS moment... hahahahaha

 

 

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